LeadHer Moves: An Interview with Danielle The Coach®
When I was 15 years old, my grandmother lost her battle with cancer. Since it happened in the middle of the school year, I had to return to Hampton, Virginia to attend school while my mother tended to her mother’s affairs at our family home in Baltimore, Maryland. During most of this time, I stayed with an aunt and two cousins, one of them being Danielle Graves.
I was immediately drawn to Danielle for her poise, grace, and no-nonsense attitude. Still trying to figure out my feminine identity at the time, Danielle was the type of young woman that I aspired to be at that age. Just one year ahead of me in age, yet two years ahead of me in school, Danielle appeared much older than my peer. She was an athlete, yet still managed to maintain good grades and show up for her younger sister and the rest of her family. One of my fondest memories during this time with my older cousin is sitting in the doorframe of her bedroom while she sat on her bed as she imparted wisdom about life and school. Feeling as though my life was falling apart at the time, I felt a beacon of light from our discussion of what my life could look like with smart decision-making and her steady determination.
Fast forward some 20-plus years later, Danielle realized her purpose in doing just that - helping others find their own way.
Today, Danielle Graves is a certified life and leadership coach, corporate exit strategist, transformation catalyst, and millennial advocate with a breadth of experience transforming lives and organizations via her eye for top talent and innovative thought leadership. Danielle holds a Bachelor of Science in Applied Mathematics from Elizabeth City State University, a Master of Science in Information Technology from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, and an Executive Certificate in Leadership Coaching from Georgetown University. With her, high-powered clients create the shifts necessary to reimagine, realign and recalibrate the lives and careers of their wildest dreams.
Before bravely stepping out into entrepreneurship, she spent more than a decade with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, where she held several key roles. As she quickly rose up the ranks from intern to front-line leader, she realized that her rise as an African-American millennial within the organization was more of the exception than the standard. Deciding to do something about it, she started a small leadership strategy circle aimed at leveling the playing field for African-American millennials.
It’s power moves like these that prove why Danielle is the coach millennials and leaders at large need. With her by their side, her clients gain clarity and experience breakthroughs necessary to conquer their worlds with courage and confidence.
Danielle’s influence sparked my own career breakthrough in early 2018 when we were both at a New Year’s family event in Baltimore. Having recently bought a home in Richmond, Virginia, she fell in love with the area and encouraged me to take a look at job opportunities. I moved to the Greater Richmond area just six months later, and she stepped up to show me the highlights of the city once I was settled.
So who better to do an interview about cultivating confidence in leadership for women than my very own cousin Danielle Graves, now socially known as “Danielle The Coach”? Ever-articulate and witty in her storytelling, Graves is the quintessential Gemini. The interview with my cousin resembled much the kind, empathetic discussion we had in her bedroom doorway, but with a virtual, more-grown up spin. A proud member of #TeamIntrovert, she presented keen observations about career growth, including introspective insights from her own experiences. We dived into detail about her journey to leadership, and how many other women have what it takes to be effective leaders, even if they may not feel ready.
What did you want to be when you were 5 years old?
You know, I’m not sure that I knew when I was 5 years old. There was a lot happening in my life when I was 5 years old, interestingly enough. When I entered first grade, which I’m assuming I might have been still 5 at the time, my parents actually were approached by my teachers about me being skipped to the next grade. Clearly, I wasn’t challenged in first grade and my teachers didn’t sit on it. They had a conversation with my parents. My parents made a conscious decision to allow me to advance to be more challenged, and so for me I did half the year in first grade and half the year in second in one year.
And so being young like that and still developing and all of that, there’s the academic part of it, but then there’s the social part of it, too, and having to shift into a brand new classroom with all these new people who already have established relationships. I’m the new kid on the block. I’m younger than everybody. There’s that that was at play. So, I don’t know if I was thinking about what I wanted to be when I was growing up, necessarily.
But I do remember at some point in time whenever I did start to think about what I wanted to do (I don’t know if I ever had a label for it), but the vision I had for myself was that I worked in some type of high rise building with glass windows. I had an office with a door, and I was the consummate professional. So as far as what I wanted to do, I never knew what exactly the work was, I just knew that the vision was that I was a professional of some sort that had an office with a door.
Can you remember the age that you were when you thought you knew what you wanted to do?
I have no idea. I’m pulling at straws. The only thing that has stuck with me is the vision, and that just speaks to me being a visionary in some sense, and what I can see myself doing. I can see that makes a lot of sense because even when I went to college majoring in computer science, I can’t tell you that I knew what job I wanted as a computer scientist, but that didn’t matter, because I ended up switching my major anyway from computer science to math.
And so the only job that I knew of well, there’s two, of course math teacher, but I wasn’t taking the education route when I switched my major to mathematics, but I had a cousin that’s an actuary, and who was also a math major in her time. And so there was like, “Ok there’s an example. I can be an actuary. I’ll major in math. There is a viable path for me to take.” Not saying I had a desire to be an actuary. It was just, pun intended: the math was mathing.
And so for me I was just kinda on this trajectory to check the big boxes. So it was, of course, finish high school and the personal goal I had in high school was I want to go to college for free. I got into, I think, all the colleges I applied to. And the one that I selected was Elizabeth City State University. I ended up basically having let’s say 95% of my tuition and fees paid for all four years. I may have paid a smidge the first year, my mom says. I don’t remember. But basically, my undergrad degree was paid in full.
In undergrad I was told “you’re a minority majoring in a STEM [science, technology, engineering, and math] field. You need a graduate degree, and you shouldn’t have to pay for it.” The seed was planted and that was the goal. The principal investigator of my undergraduate scholarship program instilled that in us, and I [thought], “Well you say it’s possible. I believe it.” And I believe that belief is what allowed me to find a graduate program in IT that was funded by the government.
It was about the bigger goal of being successful without the certainty of what success looked like [for me]. [For example], I didn’t want to be a therapist. I wasn’t thinking about being a therapist or a doctor. I knew I didn’t want to go into the military. You know, some of the generic, “end game” jobs, none of those were a part of my plan. It was just, “Go to school.” My thing was to go to graduate school for free, and I’ll figure out what jobs are available. I was kinda like a leaf blowing in the wind to some degree. I just knew… the only thing I could see was me being the professional: dressed to the nines in the office building with windows in an office of my own with a door.
What inspired you or got you thinking about computer science to pursue that in college?
My mom was a systems analyst. I was exposed to a lot in middle school and high school. My mom had my sister and me in all the programs that you can imagine when it comes to college readiness and all of that, right? But for me, [I thought] “Well, whatever I’ve been seeing, I can do that. I like computers. I like tinkering with computers.” And I know a big part of it, that was not as pronounced then, was the fact that I saw my mom do it. My mom actually worked from home. She was working remotely before, decades before, it was a thing. She was a systems analyst, and so not that I knew what that meant, but I knew it had to do with computers and whatever. So [I thought], “Oh, I'll just major in computer science.” I was very laissez-faire with coming up with a major.
I realized very quickly that I hated to code. It was a “no” for me. Absolutely not. Exit stage left, and nobody is harmed in the process. I may have given it one year. But the beautiful thing about it was that my major and minor were so related that I still would have needed or could have used some of the classes that I had been taking for the computer science major to satisfy the computer science minor. So I did it early enough where I didn’t have to stay in school longer. I wasn’t set back. The timing was divine as well.
How and when did you know you wanted to pursue a career in leadership and life coaching?
For me, the “when” of your question it was in 2018 when I felt like I was in the midst of my own personal mid-career crisis where I had that pivotal moment where I woke up one day and realized that I was not in love with the work that I was doing, and I wanted to do something different. But, I didn’t want to do just anything different. I wanted to do something that actually brought me joy. Something that made an impact. Something that served other people, but something that also leveraged some, one, or many of the skills and expertise that I had amassed over a decade spent with the FBI, so that made me begin to look inward and ask questions, “Well, what on earth could you do? What is possible based on your skill set?” And that wasn’t the best question; however, it got me started.
Then, the follow-up question I ended up asking myself “Well what is my purpose?” And I had never asked myself: “Why am I here?” And so when I began going on that journey of self-awareness, of self-awakening, that’s when I realized what I call the trifecta of identifying what my purpose is, and then I also began to notice things, and I realized the answers have been right in front of me all the time, I just was never looking for them.
I always used to joke early in my career that if I could go back and do it again I would major in psychology, because working with very interesting people sometimes makes you wonder what makes people tick and why they do what they do when they do it and how they do it. And so developing that intrigue and affinity for people and their inner workings, I’d say, “You know, I think I missed my calling”.
Fast forward 11 years, and I’m having this mid-career crisis and willing to do just about anything to get myself out of the misery and into a space where I feel like I am alive and doing something that I am interested in and I love to do. I said, “Well, maybe I don’t have to do it in my next life. Maybe I can do it in this one”. And so I started to do my research to see what it would take for me to become a psychologist, become a counselor, a licensed counselor. And for me the amount of time in order to, and money, that it would take in order to pursue yet another degree or degrees, I thought I didn’t have that time to give. I needed a solution quickly and the max that I would give myself in that space of misery was one year. I felt like I could do this for a year. I could just keep my head above water while I’m figuring this thing out, but the max I can do is a year.
And so that led me down another rabbit hole [to discover] what’s the next best thing? And that’s how I kinda stumbled upon coaching. And so when I realized what coaching was, I said, “Well wait a minute, I’ve been doing this. This is who I am. This is how people interact with me anyway. People come to me and ask me for my opinion, or my advice, or just to listen. It’s a thing with me.”
And so that was a whole part of that whole purpose exploration space that I was in, and I just started to notice. And I said, “Well, ok. Let me see what it takes to be a coach” and then that’s when I realized that it didn’t take much. And, I said, “Well, if I wanted to set myself above the starting block to come out the gate doing something different, totally different from what I’m doing now in a formal capacity and be taken [seriously], I want to do it as a certified coach. So, I want to find a training certification program and do that. And then allow that to be the catalyst for me moving forward and making this career pivot not only on purpose, but in purpose.”
“I ended up asking myself “Well what is my purpose?” And I had never asked myself: “Why am I here?” And so when I began going on that journey of self-awareness…I realized the answers have been right in front of me...”
And so that being said, I had decided that I wanted to be a life coach, and in my research of different programs, there were two programs that popped up on my radar as the top two in my opinion. One of them being Georgetown, and there was another program, and Georgetown was actually number two for me. I was looking at both, and the program I deemed number one didn’t require an application, you just pay your money and show up. Georgetown had an application and a selection process. Georgetown ended up edging out the other program, because of course I can't seem to do simple things in life, so I ended up applying for the program at Georgetown and getting accepted.
But, I know now that’s where I was supposed to be anyway. But the thing about the program at Georgetown: it was an executive certificate in leadership coaching. And there was resistance from me, because [I thought] “I’m not interested in being a leadership coach, I want to be a life coach.” However, there were many things pointing me in this direction of this leadership coaching program, and as I read up on it a little bit, I realized it could still work because leaders have lives too. So it’s a long way of answering your question. I was looking for life coaching, but leadership coaching chose me. But I say that I am both because I like to make the distinction in the event that there is someone looking for one or the other. I do both.
I do love showing up for supporting, motivating, encouraging, and inspiring other go-getters and high-achievers who may not have realized their potential and excellence yet to get up and go get it all in purpose. I call myself a “Purpose Prophet”. I believe in purpose. Purpose has gotten me to where I am right now. I would say my intention is to do all things that I do in purpose, and it’s my goal to help other people to realize theirs and make whatever shifts are necessary so that they can align with theirs and live a life that far exceeds their wildest dreams. Because that’s the territory that you pivot into when you align with your purpose.
Why is it important for women, especially women of color, to learn to be confident in their ability to lead?
I always answer questions like that with another five-word question: “If not you, then who?”
Somebody has to do it. Somebody’s going to take the job. Somebody’s gonna step up to the plate, qualified or not, best qualified or not, and at times least qualified. And the difference between that least qualified person and maybe us that don’t feel ready, don’t feel prepared, feel scared, is confidence. That’s the only thing. Maybe patience, too. The patience to do what it takes to step into a leadership role and perform in the capacity of a leader, right? But at the end of the day, it’s the confidence that I can do it. Or I can, at least, figure it out.
And so why we need to do it is because somebody has to do it, so if it’s not you, then who? And if it’s not you then that means that you are automatically accepting and submitting to the leadership of someone else. But, also denying others the ability to be led by someone who, if this is you, is empathetic and compassionate, self-aware, driven, courageous, and confident, possessing the suite of what it takes to be an effective leader or what I call an elite leader: an engaging leader who inspires, transforms, and empowers. You may have all of those things, but maybe the confidence isn’t there. And then you would subject or deny others the experience of being led by someone who gets it. We’re absolutely needed.
Do we all get it right? No. There isn’t one group or sector where there is an absolute. However, our voice is needed. Our presence is needed. For representation's sake, we are needed. Not only because we’re great at what we do, but because we also know a lot, so our essence coupled with the responsibility and the onus of being a leader (or operating in a leadership role) can move mountains.
What are some tools you recommend to help women enhance their leadership skills?
So out the gate knowing that you are enough, even if you don’t feel that you’re prepared, you don’t feel that you have the experience. Most people who step into leadership for the first time don’t. You figure it out while you’re in it. And I know that firsthand by lived experience.
I was that “worker bee” that loved coming in and being responsible for my piece of the pie. When I started getting tapped and mentored, if you will, to even consider the opportunity, I wanted no part of leadership. I wanted no part of being responsible for other people; however, knowing there was something about me that others in my leadership chain saw in me spoke volumes. They knew that I had what it took -- even though I didn’t wanna be bothered -- and while I may not have had the expertise or the experience needed to effectively lead a team, I was enough.
“You may have all of those things, but maybe the confidence isn’t there. And then you would subject or deny others the experience of being led by someone who gets it. We’re absolutely needed.”
I was an amazing leader. My team would run through walls for me, as I would for them. That’s what it’s all about. And so I think if there is nothing else, just to know you are enough now, and what you don’t know, you can learn, and what you don’t know you can seek and find, and then adapt, and then adopt. You can always figure it out. So first and foremost, knowing you are enough, right?
It’s a lot of mindset work and overcoming imposter syndrome. Knowing that you are enough. Knowing that you are qualified, especially if you are being tapped for an opportunity, and even if you aren’t being tapped for an opportunity. If there is an opportunity that you desire, the desire is there for a reason. Go get it.
Another tool that I highly recommend, and this is still in the same vein, but I would categorize it as self-assessing. There are many ways that you can do it; however, effective, engaging leaders who inspire, transform, and empower know who they are first. Before you can lead anybody else, you first have to lead yourself, and you have to know yourself and knowing who you are, knowing how you show up in the world, personality-wise and leadership-wise, and knowing how your personality lands on other people who may be like you, but more than likely different from you, allows you to make conscious decisions on how you lead. It may invoke a desire to make some adjustments so that you can be more effective in getting what you need out of those that you are leading or not, right? Because there are consequences for everything, but at least you’re making a conscious decision on how you’re showing up. So, if nothing else, know who you are first and how you show up and be aware how that impacts other people.
Another thing that I would say is emotional intelligence. It’s become like a buzzword, but I do think it’s important to know. Emotional intelligence is extremely important because you never know what a day, a decision, a situation, or a circumstance may throw your way. But having your emotional intelligence sword sharpened allows you to process and be human and still lead and engage in a way that still gets results and leaves fewer (hopefully a whole lot fewer) bridges burned, and more relationships still intact after whatever it is that you have worked through, either individually or with a greater collective.
“So out the gate knowing that you are enough, even if you don’t feel that you’re prepared, you don’t feel that you have the experience. Most people who step into leadership for the first time don’t. You figure it out while you’re in it.”
I would also say mastering the art of delegation. That’s super important, especially for those who are transitioning as first-time leaders of people. When you have been conditioned in your comfort zone in managing your own work, in doing the work, moving from doing that work to being responsible for managing the work that other people are responsible for doing, it’s not the easiest thing to do. But the quicker that you learn to delegate and hold people accountable, the less time you spend doing two jobs getting paid for one. So mastering the art of delegation, becoming comfortable delegating, and holding others accountable, leads me to the next tool: managing conflict and initiating difficult conversations. Holding someone accountable for not performing optimally could be a difficult conversation topic to engage in. However, somebody’s gotta do it.
A lot of these tools are soft skills; however, that can make or break a leader’s experience and reputation. And just because people follow you and do what you say doesn’t mean that they respect you, and subjectively, it makes a difference. I’m sure there are some leaders that really don’t care as long as the bottom line is the bottom line, but I would not call them elite by my definition. You know, they’re not elite. They’re effective because they get people to do what they want them to do or what they need them to do and to move in a certain direction, but a well–rounded leader is compassionate as well. They’re decisive. They are problem-oriented. They’re able to delegate and put the right people in the right places at the right time in the right assignment based on skill or challenge level. They are able to trust with a frame of accountability to manage performance and outcomes based on the bottom line, and they’re also able to acknowledge and celebrate the work that those who are working with them are doing. It takes all of the things to be elite in my book, according to my standards in my definition of what an elite leader is. So, it’s becoming a more well-rounded person, but it starts with the leader and being able to self-assess because when you know who you are, you also know who you aren’t.
Do you have a specific set of self-assessments that you recommend, such as the MBTI or the DISC, or do you recommend a particular book that you recommend to develop these touch points that you’re talking about or resources that go along with some of these steps?
So for emotional intelligence I recommend Emotional Intelligence 2.0 and the assessment that I live by is called the Flight Assessment. It is the DISC assessment with a unique overlay that makes it easy to understand and recall and also to build a culture in a team setting, if necessary, but it’s good for individuals as well. But those are my two go-to sources. The Flight assessment can solve many different areas of self-awareness, leadership, and also team building and understanding one’s own superpower, but also differences in how to improve communication as well. It’s levels and layers to it.
Case in point, knowing who you are and understanding your superpower will let you know your lane of genius: the lane that you should operate in. Anything outside of that, there is somebody else who is much better equipped to do the other things. But knowing who is the best person requires you to know the different personality styles of your people and seeing how they show up in your environment helps you figure out where to delegate.
“It’s a lot of mindset work and overcoming imposter syndrome. Knowing that you are enough.”
So first, it’s self-awareness and knowing that I should not be doing the work. My work as the leader looks different than the work of the team. But then there’s identifying who, and where does the work fit? I still go to the assessment for that. Understanding the different personality styles as you learn about each personality, you don’t just learn where you fall on the spectrum, you learn about the other personality styles as well, and that allows you to potentially develop a level of compassion based on understanding, “Oh, this is what’s happening over there. This is… ok. I get them now.” So it allows you to extend an element of grace that you may not have been aware of or realized the need for prior to understanding that there are differences beyond what meets the surface.
The Flight assessment is something that I actually offer. A service that I offer is the facilitation of this assessment. Helping leaders do whatever [they need to move forward with their concerns].
The Flight Assessment wasn’t around when I was becoming a leader. A lot of this stuff I learned by watching other leaders that I admired and being subjected to leaders that I felt were ineffective. But, I also learned in both of those instances what I wanted to embody because I knew the things that I felt from the amazing leaders that made me appreciate them and sing their praises. I wanted people to feel the same way about me when I was in charge. And so I began to embody some of those things and the things that I did not appreciate, that I did not like, that I despised, I was conscious enough to make sure that I steered far away from those behaviors so that I wouldn't have that lasting negative impact on other people as a result of my leadership.
“Even if you don’t feel like you’re ready, do it before you feel like you’re ready. You will be surprised how much you grow into a role that you feel like you’re not ready for...”
I let my experience be my teacher in a sense. It’s kinda like a gift of being an introvert, which is we watch, we see all the things, and just adjust and then we pop out, and [then people think]“Oh, they’re amazing”. Well, yeah, because we’ve been seeing everything unfold. We have the blueprint, right?
And so honestly that’s how I developed my leadership acumen. I was also able to foster the trust of peers and colleagues while at the FBI to start a grassroots movement called the FBI African-American Millennials Employee Resource Group, and it was leadership at its finest without touting, “Hey, I’m a leader or I’m in charge”. I had a vision. Sold it to other people. They bought into it. Continued to show up. Word spread, and it became a movement that is still alive and well to this day -- so much so they called me back recently, and I actually shared insight about the vision that inspired the group’s creation back in 2017. And, that just speaks to who I am as a person, even though it may not have been the most comfortable thing to lean into when my leadership was tapping me, they were right all along. I had what it took to be an effective leader, and I proved them right. You know, time and time and time again.
How should one go about picking the right leadership opportunity? How does one know when they’re ready to “lean in”?
It all depends. You could be tapped for leadership, and you might not feel ready. But, if someone is tapping you, there’s a great chance they see something in you that maybe you already know or maybe you didn’t even realize was an option for you, or an option for you so soon. So that’s a great time to literally lean into it, and see what’s possible. Even if you don’t feel like you’re ready, do it before you feel like you’re ready. You will be surprised how much you grow into a role that you feel like you’re not ready for, and if you’ve never considered it before, you might not feel like you’re ready for it, but high achievers, if you’re being tapped for a role you very likely have what it takes to flourish. Will it be easy? Probably not. Will there be challenges? Welcome to leadership. However, it’s figureoutable. And you have what it takes.
On the other hand, knowing that you’re ready, your gut might be telling you. You might have an inner desire, [such as]“I think I’m ready for the next level.” The right opportunity is dependent upon you. And it really requires going back to self-assessing, like who are you? What type of environment and culture do you thrive in? What type of environment and culture would you love to be a part of and help continue the legacy of great, effective, elite leadership? Where do you want to show up? Do you want to go in and turn a place right-side-up? I mean, it just depends on what you are willing to assume responsibility [for], but having some semblance of knowing yourself and what it takes for you to thrive regardless of your responsibility will put you lightyears ahead of someone who takes an opportunity just because the opportunity presents itself. You get to have a say in what next looks like for you while still being open to opportunities that you may not realize exist.
-------
Tips for Becoming a Confident Leader
Knowing you are enough
Completing a self-assessment
Developing emotional intelligence
Learning to delegate
Knowing/understanding how to manage conflict and difficult conversations
Observing other leaders and adding the traits that you admire to your own leadership toolkit
-------
Danielle Graves is the CEO of The Aramint Group® and Head Coach at Danielle The Coach®. You can follow her on Instagram and LinkedIn or contact her by email at dg@daniellethecoach.com.